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This is a hot topic.  The debate is intense.  I don't say that in challenge.  I'm saying that in warning.

WARNING: This is my journal.  I am the OP.  Get the slightest 'tude with me and you will simply be banned.

WARNING: Know your Trek lore before you comment.  If you aren't familiar with the entire Star Trek franchise, this is way out of your league.  That being said, this is not an open discussion on all things Trek--long discussions which deviate from the core topic will be deleted to make way for others.

WARNING: The core topic has to do with the new Star Trek film.  If you hated the new film, skip this altogether.

Last but not least, the main theme here is self-examination.  You don't have to post, but if you do, be ready to defend yourself if you type something that's even the slightest bit questionable.  And by defense, I don't mean trolling, flaming, or merely getting a 'tude.  That too will result in banning and deletion--no questions asked.  Consider this a final warning.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here’s a simple quiz to know whether or not you have a racial problem with the S/U ship.  Many people who liked the film but disliked the ship insist they aren’t doing so because of latent racist attitudes, and most of them seriously believe that.

But how can they know…for sure?

First, allow me to preface this with: being a person of color, having friends of color, liking celebrities of color, listening to music performed by people of color, even previously dating/marrying people of color doesn’t exempt you from being racist.  Racism has existed in America since its founding; racism got America this land and racism got the cities built.  Racism helped America's economy flourish for centuriesFor some people, it’s etched in so deeply they don’t even know they have it in them.  So simply beginning arguments with “I’m honestly not a racist” doesn’t help you.

State your piece.  If it’s racist, it’s racist.  If it’s not, it’s not.

You cannot get mad at people of color if you do, in fact, discover a racist aspect to yourself.  It’s like a saying or doing a stupid thing and then getting mad at everyone else for your own behavior.  Be an adult; hold yourself accountable, and make a decision.  Either you want to stay this way or you don’t.  If you do…to each his own.  If you don’t, then make no mistake, it takes hard work, sacrifice, and regularly being brutally honest with yourself to actually change yourself.

That said, answer these questions very honestly (notice they are highly Uhura-centric--focus on that in discussion):

 

1)    Do you feel horrified when you see Spock kiss a woman who looks like Uhura, and don’t know why?

2)    Do you look at Zoe Saldana and feel you “just can’t trust her” but can’t say why?

3)    Do you think Uhura’s not a very feminine character, but just can’t say why?

4)    Would you prefer Spock to be with Christine Chapel over Uhura?

5)    Do you think the Spock/Uhura relationship—in the story—is controversial because of Uhura?

6)    Do you consider yourself a “die-hard” Trek fan but still don’t agree with the pairing?

7)    Have you watched all things Trek—shows, films, interviews, etc. pertaining to this cast—and still think this pairing “came out of nowhere”?

8)    Do you think the kissing was “just wrong” and that Zachary Quinto was hurt by the writers?

9)    Do you think Spock wasn’t very “Vulcan” for being with Uhura?

10) Do you think Uhura forced herself onto Spock in the turbolift?

11) Out of the other dramatic elements in the film—death of Kirk’s father, destruction of Romulus, destruction of Vulcan, death of Spock’s mother, near-destruction of Earth, Kirk’s overly-speedy promotion, the massive death toll of young, innocent Starfleet cadets—is the Spock/Uhura relationship what sticks out to/bothers you the most?

12) Do you feel a “strong black woman” should never be in an onscreen relationship because you think it “weakens” her character?

13) Do you feel the same about a “strong white woman”?

14) Do you tell yourself Spock would never find Uhura attractive?

15) Do you tell yourself Zachary Quinto would never find Zoe Saldana beautiful, or that Leonard Nimoy never found Nichelle Nichols attractive?

16) For white girls only: Do you sometimes/often/all the time wish Spock kissed a white character so as to make it easier to picture yourself in her place?

 

Analyzing the Answers

            If you answered yes to 1-12, no to 13, and yes to 14 & 15…you have a problem.  If you’re a white girl, there was no wrong answer to #16.  Wishing an actor/character would be intimate with someone who looks more like you for the sake of fantasizing, oddly enough, is actually quite normal.

            But let’s analyze the others now, shall we?

 

Do you feel horrified when you see Spock kiss a woman who looks like Uhura, and don’t know why?

“Not knowing why” a white person kissing a black person bugs you is a common symptom of latent racism.  It never bugs non-racists; they really don’t care.  That’s not to say they don’t notice the difference in skin; they just don’t care**update** People are actually trying say this is too "ambiguous".  I don't know how, but fine.  I'll say it again: if you see two people of different races kissing, and the fact they are of two different races and kissing bothers you, you have a problem.  Rewording this question, being "nicer", etc. isn't going to magically change that fact.

 

Do you look at Uhura and feel you “just can’t trust her” but can’t say why?

This goes in line with the first question.  When Obama was running for president, many white citizens told reporters they “just couldn’t trust him.”  They said it was in his face, then his eyes, then they erroneously called him an Arab (by the way, not taking time to differentiate people of color is a huge symptom of racism.  If you can’t tell the difference between a black man and an Arab, you have a problem).  They could not find any other reason to dislike him.  He was an educated, polite, spiritual, articulate, sophisticated family man with no criminal record (or connections) and who was once a champion for the poor.

 

But there wasn’t something about him they “just couldn’t trust.”

 

Do you think Uhura’s not a very feminine character, but just can’t say why?

Uhura’s character has never been tomboyish or butch.  She’s almost always seen in a skirt.  She wears make up, jewelry, and clearly feminine hairstyles.  She sings girlish songs, flirts, and is often told she’s beautiful by those around her.  In the new movie, she even wears a long, girly ponytail.  There’s a highly racist notion in America that black women aren’t feminine or beautiful.  Hollywood has done damn near everything to perpetuate this notion.  If you can’t put your finger on why you don’t think Uhura’s feminine, you have a problem.

 

Would you prefer Spock to be with Christine Chapel over Uhura?

People wonder why this could make them racist.  That’s because Spock and Chapel have absolutely nothing in common except pale skin.  Anyone who’s watched TOS knows this combination could never work, not even just for sex.  Chapel focuses too much on Spock’s human side, conveniently neglecting his alien heritage because it makes him seem “Other.”  This is a great nod to the experiences of many biracial people whose significant others have always focused on whichever half they felt the most comfortable which, while consistently ignoring/devaluing the “Other” half.  Also, Chapel thinks because she’s a pretty human, Spock should automatically be attracted to her.  Many people of color get hit on every day by whites who become shocked when people of color politely decline.  They often having trouble grasping the notion that being white doesn’t automatically translate to being attractive. 

 

Chapel has been shown as subservient and needy, desperate for his approval—and Spock has rejected her repeatedly.  Not only that, if you can look at Chapel and honestly admire her characterization in TOS, you’ve got a bit of a sexist streak in you as well (and if you’re a woman, that doesn’t make you exempt from being sexist).  Roddenberry no doubt did this deliberately to show that a highly intelligent and confident man doesn’t need a helpless, begging female at his feet.  **update** Just because there's a huge Spock/Chapel following doesn't magically make the characters--as they are written--compatible for each other.  Uhura is more compatible, and that was deliberately done.  So if you're shipping S/C, the "better compatibility" argument isn't yours.  Try again.

 

Do you think the Spock/Uhura relationship—in the story—is controversial because of Uhura?

Here’s what throws people: Spock is the “Other” in this relationship, not Uhura.  In the new film, we can see how human males like Uhura fine (Kirk in particular).  What shocks Kirk is the sight of a fellow human in the arms of an alien.  To a slight extent, Spock offends fellow characters who witness their relationship—not Uhura.  Humans in the Trek verse understand why a man would date Uhura; they have trouble, however, understanding why Uhura—who could have anyone—would date a Vulcan.

 

Do you consider yourself a “die-hard” Trek fan but still don’t agree with the pairing?

Posters often abuse the adjective “die-hard.”  To be “die-hard” means to accept whatever your favorite writer/director/TV/film offers you—whether you get it or not.  If you consider yourself a “die-hard” Trek fan but this is the one thing you just can’t accept, you have a problem.  Kirk died in Generations.  Data died in Nemesis.  Vulcan’s been destroyed in the new film.  Amanda Grayson is dead.  Several young cadets also died because of Nero.  In short, there are way too many major events to disagree with in the Trek verse, so out of all that, the S/U ship really shouldn’t bother a “die-hard” Trek fan at all.

**update** As I wrote in my follow-up post, you cannot dictate a world to its creator.  If you're a "die-hard" fan of a 'verse--watching, reading, and researching everything--you should be in the know.  You should know who did what and why.  You should know the creators' motivation.  If you disagree with something, then you should be able to use canon info and commentaries from the writers, directors, etc. to support your arguments.  If you do not have their backing, you better regroup and form a convincing argument.  Did they pull a race fail?  Were they being sexist?  Find your evidence.  If you still can't, then maybe you need to ask yourself why you have such a problem.

Artists are not waiters; they're creators.  They're not here to take your orders.  They can give you general elements like action or humor, but at some point, they need to get their message across and do what means something to them.

Have you watched all things Trek—shows, films, interviews, etc. pertaining to this cast—and still think this pairing “came out of nowhere”?

This goes in line with the previous question.  If you are a “die-hard” Trek Fan, then you of all people should know this relationship existed since the beginning—racism, ironically, kept it from being properly explored.  If you “just don’t see it”, then understand the creator, the actors, the writers, and directors have confirmed this ad nauseum.  The internet is filled with concrete evidence; more than enough, no doubt, for a “die-hard” fan like you.  If you still can’t see it, then it’s because you don’t want to see it.

 

Do you think the kissing was “just wrong” and that Zachary Quinto was hurt by the writers?

If you think the kissing was just wrong and feel Quinto was hurt…why don’t you also feel bad for Saldana?  Anti-S/U-shippers never show her sympathy when they do Quinto.  Both are actors bound by contract.  Both followed the same script.  It takes two people to passionately kiss each other.  So why is Quinto the victim and not Saldana?

 

Do you think Spock wasn’t very “Vulcan” for being with Uhura?

Anti-S/U-shippers love this excuse.  Sorry; it doesn’t hold, even for all you nuTrekkers.  One, Spock himself is half-human; he didn’t just magically appear out of nowhere.  His father, a full-blooded Vulcan married a human, and retained his status as a high-ranking Ambassador and revered thinker not just on Vulcan, but within the entire Federation.  Two, Spock was more likely to end up with a human instead of a Vulcan anyway, as he loved his mother dearly, and would very likely want a woman from her species.  Also, in TOS, he dissolved his bond with his mate T’Pring.  That should have been a huge cue.  **update** People seem to think I mean the kissing scene here; I'm actually referring to the entire relationship.  That they assume this is all about the kiss brings us back to square one: they're bothered by the kissing.  It shows they're blowing the kiss (witnessed by only about two people) out of proportion, which is a sign of a problem.  Furthermore, if you or someone you loved were going on a suicide mission, would you care about kissing (for possibly the last time) goodbye in front of a couple of people?  Be honest!
 

Do you think Uhura forced herself onto Spock in the turbolift?

If you have watched this film repeatedly, listened to the commentary, read articles with cast and crew interviews, and you still think so, you have a problem and serious one, because you most likely a harbor the subconscious feeling blacks are an aggressive and dangerous people.

 

Out of the other dramatic/traumatic elements in the film—death of Kirk’s father, destruction of Romulus, destruction of Vulcan, death of Spock’s mother, near-destruction of Earth, Kirk’s overly-speedy promotion to Captain, the massive death toll of young, innocent Starfleet cadets—is the Spock/Uhura relationship what sticks out to/bothers you the most?

If so, enough said.

**okay...maybe not enough said**
Refresher: You just sat through a film where six billion people were murdered.  Thousands of young soldiers were also murdered trying to rescue the six billion.  Thousands of innocent young people who will never return home, much like the ones in America's war right now.  Somewhere in between the staggering death toll, a young man grieves the loss of his mother and his world and gets a kiss from his girlfriend, whom he kisses back.  Is the kissing really what bugs you the most?  Spock having and getting a kiss from his girlfriend...is worse than genocide?

 

Do you feel a “strong black woman” should never be in an onscreen relationship because you think it “weakens” her character?

Thinking so possibly means you prefer black women stay safely celibate and not reproduce, and where S/U is concerned, certainly not with white guys.  Holding up a black female character as a strong, untouchable paradigm of virtue and self-respect—so long as she stays single—is actually quite insulting.  Being desired doesn’t make a person weak, nor is being seen as beautiful or sexy.  There’s nothing wrong with any of those qualities, especially when they are balanced with intelligence, competence, and respect.  Uhura is all these things, therefore it’s more realistic that she would be pursued/in a relationship, rather than celibate.  Remember, Roddenberry wanted to express this aspect of her in TOS, but racism prevented him from doing so, as it has for many subsequent black female characters.  Also, the “strong black woman” is a cliche.  If you adhere to it faithfully, you have a problem.

 

A good example of what Uhura should have been more like is Zoe Washburne from Firefly.  She’s tough and smart…and married, and sexual.  We see her be tough in a fight, but tender and vulnerable with her husband, who very obviously adores and desires her.  That’s called balance, children.

 

Do you feel the same about a “strong white woman”?

If this question caught you off guard, you have a problem.  If your instinctive first answer was “no, because that’s different” you have a problem.  If you think there’s no such thing as a “strong white woman,” you also have a problem.

 

Do you tell yourself Spock would never find Uhura attractive?

If so, you have a problem.  Uhura is a beautiful woman; this is both plainly obvious and established many times onscreen.  She has many admirers.  In the area of personality compatibility, Uhura has the most in common with Spock; and she is one person he is willing show himself actually being fond of—Vulcan stoicism or no.  She has his full confidence in all things, whether professional or artistic (she’s the only human he’s willing to teach the Vulcan lyre).  Roddenberry deliberately wrote her character to be as similar to Spock’s as possible as he intended them to be a couple.  Nichelle Nichols actually auditioned for her role by reading dialogue written for Spock.  In the new movie, their similarity is established even further (they’re both total nerds, for example).

 

Do you tell yourself Zachary Quinto would never find Zoe Saldana beautiful, or that Leonard Nimoy never found Nichelle Nichols attractive?

No, it’s not the same question.  If you’re begrudgingly willing to accept Spock would find Uhura attractive, but comfort yourself with the belief the actors could not be attracted to the actresses, you have a huge problem.  Especially since the actors have repeatedly confirmed otherwise.  And if you insist they must be lying for the sake of press, then you have a severe problem.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Now kids, notice my use of the word "problem".  The quiz in no way defines you; it just asks to see if you might have a "problem."  People's heads have been exploding rather than admit they just might have a "problem".  God forbid you have a problem...as though a problem can't be fixed.

Comments

( 426 comments — Leave a comment )
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recumbentgoat
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:13 am (UTC)
this is epic. do you mind if i link to this?
ankhesen_mie
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:17 am (UTC)
Absolutely. In fact, spread it around on as many discussion sites as possible. Let's see how people react, shall we?
mojitochica
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:14 am (UTC)
This ought to be interesting. I'm kinda mad at myself for not know Data died in Nemesis!
ankhesen_mie
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:18 am (UTC)
And fans rolled over and forgave that!!!
(no subject) - witchsistah - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:46 am (UTC) - Expand
Not enough LOL in the world - ankhesen_mie - Jan. 16th, 2010 12:10 am (UTC) - Expand
teaoli
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:21 am (UTC)
Brava!
But about those strong Black women... we're allowed to date?

*starts looking up old bfs*

*remembers she already did that and had to take one off the "old bf" list*
dearland76
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:23 am (UTC)
Thank you for pointing out that a person with a spouse or friend of colour, could in fact be racist. Some people just never seem to understand that simple fact. I think, they are the worst type of racist, because it is buried beneath, and they themselves may not be aware of it. As for S/U, I liked the idea of them as a couple before the movie; however, seeing it onscreen surprised me. I never saw it coming. What is even more surprising, perhaps shocking are the hateful responses. I think Roddenberry (both Gene and Majel) would have been very disappointed with it.
witchsistah
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:50 am (UTC)
Thank you for pointing out that a person with a spouse or friend of colour, could in fact be racist. Some people just never seem to understand that simple fact. I think, they are the worst type of racist, because it is buried beneath, and they themselves may not be aware of it.

Those folks usually have a very simplistic view of racism. It's all KKK and neo-Nazis to them. They think if they can stomach fucking and actually honoring a PoC by MARRYING them, they can't be racist or any racism within them has been cured. They don't get how complex and subtle racism, like all human behaviors and psychologies, is.
The scariest thing about racism - spocklikescats - Jan. 14th, 2010 06:36 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: The scariest thing about racism - ankhesen_mie - Jan. 15th, 2010 12:47 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: The scariest thing about racism - prylliepwns - Jan. 19th, 2010 04:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
bana05
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:27 am (UTC)
Oh, this should be glorious.
black_alnair
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:51 am (UTC)
Zomg, I love the icon!! Do you know where I could find the original picture??
(no subject) - bana05 - Jan. 14th, 2010 04:58 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - black_alnair - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:27 am (UTC) - Expand
caitri
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:28 am (UTC)
This is MADE of awesome!!!!!!
(Deleted comment)
claws_n_stripes
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:53 am (UTC)
Let me know when Jay Smooth comes out with an "How To Tell People They Sound Like Fucking Morons" video, okay?
(no subject) - t_rex - Jan. 19th, 2010 10:05 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - claws_n_stripes - Jan. 20th, 2010 12:44 am (UTC) - Expand
Lucky_Starr17 & Turtleyurtle1 - ankhesen_mie - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:42 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - epilady - Jan. 15th, 2010 07:31 am (UTC) - Expand
ps: - delux_vivens - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:23 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: ps: - claws_n_stripes - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: ps: - tacky_tramp - Jan. 14th, 2010 07:24 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: ps: - insane_duckfish - Jan. 14th, 2010 09:23 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - tacky_tramp - Jan. 14th, 2010 07:34 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - grlmonday - Jan. 14th, 2010 08:38 pm (UTC) - Expand
new_hillbilly
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:35 am (UTC)
LOL @ #16!!!!

...I actually don't picture him kissing a white girl, because it would feel like he was cheating on Uhura! In my head. Or something.

You know... there are some people role-playing Spock and Uhura on twitter, and they answer questions about themselves (in character) on formspring here and here. And, in their role-playing mode, they decided to break up! And I was SO UPSET!! ...I actually had to remind myself that Spock and Uhura are not real people.
renaitrefille
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:45 am (UTC)
LOL. I'm am totally asking "Did you make these pages just so you could live out your fantasy that Spock and Uhura aren't together?" *shakes head* denial much?
jlneveloff
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:45 am (UTC)
This is one amazing post. :D

As for my answer to #16, For white girls only: Do you sometimes/often/all the time wish Spock kissed a white character so as to make it easier to picture yourself in her place?

Acutally...I've never pictured myself in her place. It's always been Uhura in my mind :)


Uhura is made of total awesome. This post is made of total awesome. I freaking love Uhura ^_^
terrie01
Jan. 19th, 2010 05:12 pm (UTC)
You, too? For me, if there's a white girl in the fantasy mix, it's probably a threesome. :)
gmonkey42
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:49 am (UTC)
Thank you for this post!

The bit that bugs me the most is when people say S/U came out of nowhere. Have they not seen TOS season 1? Like in Charlie X where Spock and Uhura are blatantly flirting with each other in front of everyone?? I don't know how anyone can claim to be a Trek fan and claim it came out of nowhere. I mean, granted TOS didn't establish that they were in a relationship at the Academy, but it also didn't establish that Spock programmed the Kobayashi Maru yet we don't hear people complaining about that bit of retcon.
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(no subject) - bana05 - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:15 am (UTC) - Expand
Rosa Parks - ankhesen_mie - Jan. 14th, 2010 10:04 pm (UTC) - Expand
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claws_n_stripes
Jan. 14th, 2010 04:54 am (UTC)
This is absolutely epic and wins like a winning thing, hard.
mquixote
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:14 am (UTC)
For white girls only: Do you sometimes/often/all the time wish Spock kissed a white character so as to make it easier to picture yourself in her place?

No, cuz Spock and Uhura are meant to be together. That's it. End of story.
In my imagination, they didn't even break up when he was thinking about going to New Vulcan.
mojitochica
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:16 am (UTC)
In my imagination, they didn't even break up when he was thinking about going to New Vulcan.

Dude me too! I've been waiting for someone to write this!!!
(no subject) - mquixote - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:18 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - mquixote - Jan. 14th, 2010 11:42 pm (UTC) - Expand
delux_vivens
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:18 am (UTC)
OK folks. I've got popcorn. Who has the fruit punch?
recumbentgoat
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:36 am (UTC)
pfft, what's fruit punch when you can dissolve some rock?
move your orc butt over and make some room for Mother Horta:



XD - recumbentgoat - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:59 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: XD - delux_vivens - Jan. 14th, 2010 06:11 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: XD - grlmonday - Jan. 14th, 2010 08:59 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - darkrosetiger - Jan. 14th, 2010 07:35 am (UTC) - Expand
burnt_orange
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:25 am (UTC)
Hello! I'm here through a link on debunkingwhite. This is really a fantastic write-up, the questions got me thinking but your analysis of the answers even more so. I'll be keeping an eye on the comments here to see how things progress. Thanks for doing this!
ankhesen_mie
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:30 am (UTC)
debunkingwhite, huh? I sense The Goat's hand at work here....
(no subject) - burnt_orange - Jan. 14th, 2010 05:39 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - recumbentgoat - Jan. 14th, 2010 06:00 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - burnt_orange - Jan. 14th, 2010 06:02 am (UTC) - Expand
mojitochica
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:32 am (UTC)


I told you this was gonna get interesting. Damn, I'm pissed the corporate plantation blocks lj!
ankhesen_mie
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:34 am (UTC)
Bwahahahahahah!

Like, I just posted this thing, you know?
atanam
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:37 am (UTC)
Well bebe, me I answered no to all of them except 16 because 16 is only for white girls and I am definately not that.

What sold me on Spock.Uhura is the incredible chemestry they had and how they made so much out of so few scenes. The fact thatUhura and I share coloring was a great bonus. One that made me squee out loud in the theater all (not gonna admit to it) times I saw it
ankhesen_mie
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:45 am (UTC)
Merci, bebe!
(no subject) - yalegirl03 - Jan. 14th, 2010 07:44 pm (UTC) - Expand
mistaria
Jan. 14th, 2010 05:53 am (UTC)
I totally agree with you about Spock/Chapel. I mean... I have literally watched one episode of TOS so far -- Amok Time. In this episode she wandered into his room uninvited not only once but twice (again I've only seen this episode so maybe them wandering into each others rooms uninvited was a common occurence?)! And the second time she touched his face! This would be a serious breach of privacy for a human, in my opinion... and this is a VULCAN we're taking about. My god I wanted to strangle her for being so effing... weak and whiney and outwardly in love with someone who was raised in a world where it is unacceptable to show outward signs of deep emotion. Every moment she was on screen in this single episode just proved how little she actually knows about Spock.

I'm sad to think that anyone could say yes to these questions. Not that I'm not aware of all the race fail out there. I've been lucky enough to avoid people who don't like S/U so far so here's hoping I continue to do so.
selenityshiroi
Jan. 14th, 2010 06:19 am (UTC)
What about if you read the post, say no to all the questions and then feel horrified that they even have to be ASKED because you can't understand why anyone would say yes?

Actually, I said yes to one. The relationship sticks out to me. But in an 'OMG...I love it so much and want MOREEEEEEEE!!!!' way.

Zoe is so beautiful. I'm facinated with her eyelashes! Not just in the movie (where she EXUDES feminine grace) but also in all the promo/non movie pics I've seen of her. And I can convieniently see an icon of Nichelle, from where I'm replying, and she is beautiful too (I haven't seen TOS...). In fact, her cheekbones and her brow really draw you to her eyes and, my god, she looks so sultry...(ankhesen_mie has a lovely icon)

(Also, I think it's because I'm asexual, but I never imagine myself in anyone's shoes. And if I did, it would be because I love Uhura's boots!)

Edit: Aannnd...the icon is yours...sorry, I was busy reading the post and forgot who posted it!

Edited at 2010-01-14 06:20 am (UTC)
herm_weasley
Jan. 14th, 2010 06:24 pm (UTC)
What about if you read the post, say no to all the questions and then feel horrified that they even have to be ASKED because you can't understand why anyone would say yes?

That's what I thought :P

As for question #16 I really don't like imagining myself into TV/MOVIE/BOOK couples XD
spocklikescats
Jan. 14th, 2010 06:22 am (UTC)
Ummm ... What if I LOL'd?
My god, I'm white, and I totally Lol'd at the first 9 questions. I cannot believe anyone seriously into Trek or its principles would diss S/U as shown in STXI.

She is everything a modern woman should want to be [except maybe a tiny bit too thin].

I went away from that movie and went back NINE MORE TIMES b/c I shipped S/U so hard. What a beautiful couple.

I was so glad when she told Kirk, in effect, to piss off.

As a viewer of Original Trek in its heyday, I did not get the privilege of seeing S/U, nor did I have the imagination for it then, as there were very few if any interracial couples in my Long Island middle school. I never shipped Spock with Chapel, but with the ladies on the various planets whom he met over the years.

I am very sorry that Gene R. was prevented from showing a S/U intimate friendship, even, by the network execs. Buncha wusses.

I think you could use your commentary for some psychology class, if it's filled with Star Trek nerds ... or maybe over at ONTD [but prepare for heavy weather; K/S'ers abound]!
amberite
Jan. 14th, 2010 07:00 am (UTC)
Re: Ummm ... What if I LOL'd?
Heh. I'm one of those who has Spock and Kirk together forever in my head - for that is the stuff of my earliest fandom years - but I'm okay with universes in which they're polyamorous!

I was, however, annoyed that they didn't give Uhura *nearly* enough to do in the movie.
Re: Ummm ... What if I LOL'd? - rengeek - Jan. 14th, 2010 08:09 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Ummm ... What if I LOL'd? - amberite - Jan. 15th, 2010 03:20 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Ummm ... What if I LOL'd? - spocklikescats - Jan. 14th, 2010 11:26 am (UTC) - Expand
Re: Ummm ... What if I LOL'd? - ankhesen_mie - Jan. 14th, 2010 07:41 pm (UTC) - Expand
zizi_west
Jan. 14th, 2010 06:26 am (UTC)
Ankhesen_mie, hanks for posting this quiz. I'll be optimistic and hope that it provokes some self-examination.
I'd like to avoid repeating what other posters have already said, so I'll just say that I appreciate the insightful comments.
ankhesen_mie
Jan. 14th, 2010 07:46 pm (UTC)
And thank you as well. The self-examination aspect seems to frightening some people.
spocklikescats
Jan. 14th, 2010 06:27 am (UTC)
"That’s not to say they don’t notice the difference in skin; they just don’t care."

And some of us delight in it, per IDIC.

ankhesen_mie
Jan. 14th, 2010 07:45 pm (UTC)
You know, I almost quoted the IDIC.

LOL - thanks for bringing it up.
skywardprodigal
Jan. 14th, 2010 06:39 am (UTC)
*reads*

LOLOLOLOL

*rereads*

LOLOLOLOLOLOL

I so needed this laugh. HAH.
dichroic
Jan. 14th, 2010 06:56 am (UTC)
Here via a roundabout path. I think #9 isn't a great question as phrased, primarily for the reasons you list above.

Sure kissing Uhura on an elevator isn't a Vulcan thing to do. But that's kind of the point, innit? For Sarek to marry Amanda was a radical act, by the customs of his people and it had consequences. One of the those was that they had a son of mixed race, and in this case I really do mean "race". When Spock kisses Uhura, that's an expression of his human side, all the more shocking because he typically presents himself as pure Vulcan. So though I do think they inserted something that's not there in TOS (sorry, I know that's probably not something I should be saying in this comm!) in another respect it serves to develop the character.

So in short, I think it's perfectly possible to say it's not a Vulcan thing to do without reacting to Uhura's race. Which is not to say that some people might not be using one as a cover for the other!!
ankhesen_mie
Jan. 14th, 2010 07:44 pm (UTC)
See, this is what I think people tend to forget
That's the thing about Vulcans. Kissing, having sex, is not post-Surak Vulcan, but it is pre-Surak Vulcan. People tend to forget that underneath all that logic and academia, Vulcans are even more passionate and emotional than humans.

Vulcans aren't born logical and stoic; they're raised to be that way. Tenderness is as innate to them as it is to us.
(Deleted comment)
burnt_orange
Jan. 14th, 2010 08:32 am (UTC)
Why would you even ask this question??

I'm really curious.
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(no subject) - burnt_orange - Jan. 14th, 2010 08:48 am (UTC) - Expand
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(no subject) - jlneveloff - Jan. 14th, 2010 09:13 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - burnt_orange - Jan. 14th, 2010 09:22 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ankhesen_mie - Jan. 14th, 2010 02:32 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - cleojones - Jan. 14th, 2010 12:07 pm (UTC) - Expand
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rengeek
Jan. 14th, 2010 07:58 am (UTC)
I'm a Scotty/Uhura shipper, so I don't THINK I have the racial issues implied there.

I just didn't like Spock/Uhura because I feel weird and uncomfortable about Spock getting it on with ANYBODY. (Maybe Saavik, I dunno)
Spock is an interesting character because he strives to be all things Vulcan ESPECIALLY at this stage in his life, having not yet experienced the character growth he'd undergo in the 5 year mission and subsequent movies where he comes more into touch with his human side and to terms with it.

Either way, Spock is not the kind of guy who would get into a PDA. Privately, eh, who knows? Perhaps. But publicly? I don't think so.
jlneveloff
Jan. 14th, 2010 09:08 am (UTC)
Spock is an interesting character because he strives to be all things Vulcan ESPECIALLY at this stage in his life, having not yet experienced the character growth he'd undergo in the 5 year mission and subsequent movies where he comes more into touch with his human side and to terms with it.

I've always gotten the impression that reboot!Spock is more in touch with his humanity than TOS!Spock was at this time in his life. I do agree that TOS!Spock became more in touch with his human side later in his life. But there's one thing that the writers and even Nimoy have been quick to point out: these characters in the reboot, while they are familiar, are not the exact same characters from the TOS universe. They've experienced different things, undergone some tragic things that they never did in the Prime timeline and these changes are going to affect them differently and very well bring out different aspects of their personalities and whatnot. At least...that's my interpretation :)
Too Bad, Innit? - spocklikescats - Jan. 14th, 2010 11:32 am (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - ankhesen_mie - Jan. 14th, 2010 02:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - rengeek - Jan. 14th, 2010 02:46 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - recumbentgoat - Jan. 14th, 2010 03:21 pm (UTC) - Expand
Spock's wedding - ankhesen_mie - Jan. 14th, 2010 03:48 pm (UTC) - Expand
(no subject) - spocksgal - Jan. 14th, 2010 11:35 pm (UTC) - Expand
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